Replies to Atheists
Hi John;
What you "know" is that evangelical Christianity is a delusion? You can no more prove that than you can prove God doesn't exist. I had a wise college professor who made a statement that still stands strong in my memory after 31 years. He said; "No man has ALL the knowledge on ANY subject at any time." I added, So then we can all stand to learn more about what we KNOW or what we think we know.
When you say you KNOW something you are stating an absolute. Since no human being has absolute knowledge of anything the possibility that any of us could be wrong is always present. You can only say "you believe" something to be true. The possibility that you could be wrong about Christianity is equally as strong as the possibility that you could be right. Wouldn't you agree?
If you have a filter that strains out what you call unsupported ideas you are caught in a trap of your own devising, and the longer you maintain the filter the more difficult it is to remove it when you grasp truth..
You've created a venue where your thoughts and beliefs are supreme in whatever area of life you choose to exercise them in the light of your doubts about others. Since you can't possibly be sure beyond all doubt that anyone's ideas are unsupported then you are assuming they are unsupported based on your own limited study. Irrespective of your degrees, you are still extremely limited in the amount of research you can do in a lifetime. Therefore there is knowledge out there that you cannot possibly have had time to examine which could refute your own ideology and affirm those you call unsupported.
You are doing the same thing you accuse others of doing. You are closing out ideas based on your limited understanding of them.
At least you gave some credibility to the Bible when you said "mostly." Who is debating? A debate is an argument. A discussion is a polite and respectful exchange of ideas. I believe discussion is preferable to debate; don't you? Can you prove your assertion about God? Just how did you come to the conclusions you came to? Have you challenged God to prove himself to you? Did he? If not, why? Was it something about you - such as insincerity, arrogance, or whatever attitude you might have come with that was not genuinely in the spirit of seeking truth but proving your opinion? Was it really because God didn't exist that he didn't answer your challenge?
These are questions you might want to consider before you delete God from your list of possible realities. After all, the motivation for beliefs should be carefully examined as well as the possible consequences of what we believe. That is true in all aspects of life, but in this case, if God is real it has major, infinite ramifications, and you better be spot on. Imagine what is to come if the Christian God does really exist and you die without finding out.
Some people suddenly shut out Christians who speak that last sentence as if they were being threatened or attacked with Hell. Silly idea! If you were sleeping and your house was on fire would you feel threatened if someone told you you needed to get out of the house before you burned to death? Doubtful! Warning people of danger is far more important when it comes to the eternal, spiritual concepts than temporal things as a physical burning in a fire. It is the duty of Christians to warn people to "flee from the wrath to come" as commanded in the Bible. No threats from them. Very clear pronouncements from the God of the Bible. Get mad at him if you like, but then you would have to believe he exists to get mad at him so that would make no sense.
The Bible was originally written by and for goat herders? Quite simplistic and void of any real study on the origins of the scriptures. The following should serve as a quick lesson on biblical history of two writers who weren't sheep herders.
There are Sixty six books by forty authors of varied backgrounds, written over a period of almost 1600 years, covering a variety of topics, yet carrying unity of theme and purpose coming from one superintending mind. Moses was far from being a goat herder - he was raised in the courts of Egypt as the Pharoah's sister's son and educated by the finest minds available as a heathen unbeliever. Moses is believed to have written the first five books of the Old Testament called the Pentateuch. (Old Testament example) Paul the Apostle was a Jew and a Roman citizen of privileged class. He was himself professed a Hebrew of the Hebrews versed in everything having to do with the scriptures and trained under the most respected tutor of his time Gamaliel. Paul is believed to have written between 11 and 13 of the 27 New Testament books. (New Testament example) Further examples are: King David, King Solomon (considered the wisest man who ever lived), Daniel, a Statesman, Matthew, a tax collector and Luke, a Physician. All but one of the New Testament writers, the younger John, were executed for their faith. Obviously men of courage.
Bible God, as you call him has no character flaws. God's perfection makes him incapable of error in any aspect of his character or reasoning. Perfection is unalterable. Therefore, whether we choose to believe it or not, God justice is equally as perfect as his mercy. His wrath equally as perfect as his love. We will bow in his presence, and since he cannot and will not change, all change must be on the part of his creation. That totally eliminates any and all questions on him except for those who reject his first quality of perfection.
This also answers your accusations about God's being just and merciful and about Hell, which, by the way, is not the final destination of the unrepentant and ungodly sinner. Reference – Revelation 20:11-15 KJV (especially verse 15).
The question to Adam wasn't about God not being able to see Adam and Eve's hiding place. God wanted Adam to see where he was "spiritually" not physically. I am sure Adam and Eve both understood this far better than we do. That is why they hid in the first place. They were afraid because they knew they believed the lie of the serpent resulting in the probability of God's displeasure and of spiritual death.
The Bible doesn't specify the fruit as an apple. That is a myth that has been propagated for centuries.
I am not a religious nut job, but I will gladly answer your questions.
#1 - There are no varying degrees of believing wrong. All are equally unbelief in the "one true and living God." Jesus stated in John 14:6 - "I am THE way." The word "the" is a very exclusive word. It admits of no other way. He went on to say; "No man comes to the Father unless he comes through me." That is exclusive. The real issue here is that either Jesus Christ was a liar or everyone who rejects him is either deceived or lying. I personally believe that the devil has chosen to use "religion" as a deception to keep people from having a personal relationship with God. Religion is based on form, ceremony, ritual, theory (rather than truth), and a host of other things that require man to work toward his personal righteous standing with God in order to procure the end result of salvation or whatever else his religion promises. Christianity on the other hand says that nobody is worthy and we all deserve eternal damnation. However, it also teaches that a merciful God gives the repentant person salvation at the cost of the life of his own son because someone has to satisfy the requirement of being worthy to die for all. Christ was sinless and pure and the only worthy sacrifice for all men of all time in God's estimation. We can't despise anyone because we know that in ourselves we are all internally evil and ungodly and without hope without Christ and he alone is worthy who died for us. Humility is the characteristic of true and right Christianity - not antagonism or hatred. We know all men, including ourselves, are lost and with no hope of forgiveness and salvation outside of Jesus Christ.
#2 - Christianity worships the God of the Hebrews. Christians didn't steal the Torah! If you check with modern day Jewish scholars you will find that the Old Testament of the Bible exactly matches the Hebrew scriptures. The Jews are coming to faith in Christ. Have you ever heard of Jews for Jesus? God will punish all who reject his word without any partiality and irrespective of what religion they follow including all pseudo-Christian teachings such as Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity School of Christianity, and many more sects and cults.
There is no concept such as Christ in all the pagan religions of the world. "Emmanuel, God with us" is central to the Christian faith and there is no comparable person anywhere. His was a sinless life, yet he died and resurrected from the dead to guarantee eternal life to all mankind who would believe in their heart that he did it. You can't find that concept in any religion no matter how long and hard you search.
Your last accusation is a sad commentary on how little you have actually studied Christianity, and how far you have to go to understand what it really is all about. Plagiarism? Literary Thieves? You did get the "great faith" part right if you had left out the false accusations behind it.
Your unbelief doesn't negate a thing. I have personally cast out demons, and those entities spoke to me as they were being cast out. One of them left a trail of protoplasm behind driveling from the mouth of the person it possessed.
I could tell you stories of the movement of the "Holy Spirit" which you would never believe in your present spiritual state, but they are true nevertheless.
You see, there is a serious problem in all unbelievers lives. Their spirit is dead in sins and trespasses and blind to any reality outside the natural realm. Therefore the Bible proclaims, "The natural man cannot perceive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned."
Salvation through Christ brings the spirit in man to life for the first time and with it "spiritual discernment." The simple solution for you would be to acknowledge from your heart that you are sorry for your sin, acknowledge that Christ is the only solution for your sins to be forgiven, ask God to forgive you based on what Christ did for you on the cross, and receive the salvation that will give you eternal life and open your spiritual eyes for the first time in your life. Apart from that the only thing you have to look forward to in eternity is God's just judgment and punishment for your insistence on disregarding his word and those who bring it to you in favor of your own opinion.
I am not being arrogant in this - just factual. My spiritual eyes were opened over 41 years ago, and I can assure you that I am very aware of what is happening in the spiritual realm. I give all glory, honor and praise to God for this because I could never have seen spiritual truth without him.
Be careful of the trap to rationalize everything from a purely finite human perspective as the atheists do. Remember that there are two realms in real life, the natural and the supernatural.
I Corinthians 2:14 makes it abundantly clear that the natural realm apart form divine revelation cannot possibly ever comprehend the spiritual realm and that unbelievers, being dead in sin, even consider the spiritual realm foolishness.
If you have been delivered from sin through Jesus Christ you would understand that the spiritual realm is equally as real as the natural realm and actually transcends it because prior to salvation the natural realm is all we have any knowledge of. When we enter the realm of the supernatural we see things as they really are in the natural realm because the blindness of sin is no longer blocking our view.
I would hate to see you allow the devil to supplant divine revelation with finite logic and reasoning and turn you from the only hope of salvation that will ever be offered to sinful mankind.
You make a strong case for faith which is the only way anyone will ever attain to a relationship with the only true and living God in the universe. Faith comes hard to the intellectual but it is not impossible for them. It takes a humbling that most intellectuals find offensive because they depend on their finite knowledge so much that it is unthinkable that something so simple could actually be true. I have been there, and I am thankful that I was able to get past my intellectual ignorance to apprehend that which cannot be found apart from faith.
C R Lord 2014
THERE IS A COMMENT BOX BELOW. - I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR CONSTRUCTIVE INPUT.